Curse

ayame ftw · Oct 03, 2007, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

I hope you only play in doa or slaver's then because in almost all other PvE areas a Tank is nothing more than a serious waste of a very high dps char.

If i play pve, i only have a warrior in my team if i need a tank, else i don’t even bother inviting a warror…

If I want dmg I rather chose for ele’s, necro, rangers they can do damage and give more support a warrior ever can except for some shouts

LightningHell · Oct 03, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

If i play pve, i only have a warrior in my team if i need a tank, else i don’t even bother inviting a warror…

If I want dmg I rather chose for ele’s, necro, rangers they can do damage and give more support a warrior ever can except for some shouts

A Warrior also has a reputation of dealing the highest single target damage of all classes.

ayame ftw · Oct 03, 2007, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Even if a warrior would do the most single target damage (witch i doubt btw). I think its more useful to use AOE damage (u will probly tell me that a warrior can do AOE dmg, but that’s realy limited if u compaire that with what a ele can do). Also a warrior needs to build adrenalin to do his most powerful attacks. Most of the times while the warrior is charging up his skills with adrenalin, my ele’s have already killed 85% of the enemies. If u are going to tell me that warriors are good for the deep wound then u can replace them by the pve skill: “finish him” witch causes deep wound…
So imo, warriors are overrated… the only reason u see so many warriors is because most people want to swing a weapon and bash on things…

glountz · Oct 03, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

Even if a warrior would do the most single target damage (witch i doubt btw). I think its more useful to use AOE damage (u will probly tell me that a warrior can do AOE dmg, but that’s realy limited if u compaire that with what a ele can do). Also a warrior needs to build adrenalin to do his most powerful attacks. Most of the times while the warrior is charging up his skills with adrenalin, my ele’s have already killed 85% of the enemies. If u are going to tell me that warriors are good for the deep wound then u can replace them by the pve skill: “finish him” witch causes deep wound…
So imo, warriors are overrated… the only reason u see so many warriors is because most people want to swing a weapon and bash on things…

............
You've a master of damage on Nameless Isle.
1) Bring any single target damage build you want on your ele and bash MoDamage.
2)Then bring a Dragon Slasher under For Good Justice and Flail (and even Save Yourselves!) kill MoD.
3)Compare DPS.
4)Delete you ele and make a warrior.

Koning · Oct 03, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

Even if a warrior would do the most single target damage (witch i doubt btw). I think its more useful to use AOE damage (u will probly tell me that a warrior can do AOE dmg, but that’s realy limited if u compaire that with what a ele can do). Also a warrior needs to build adrenalin to do his most powerful attacks. Most of the times while the warrior is charging up his skills with adrenalin, my ele’s have already killed 85% of the enemies. If u are going to tell me that warriors are good for the deep wound then u can replace them by the pve skill: “finish him” witch causes deep wound…
So imo, warriors are overrated… the only reason u see so many warriors is because most people want to swing a weapon and bash on things…

Plz stop having that tone where you think you know everything.

You probably haven't played warrior before. I kill targets before the ele's actually came in position to nuke...

Oh add enraging charge to NR 2 (maybe even sever+gash), and add NR 5: remove yourself from this thread.

ayame ftw · Oct 03, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Im not saying a warrior has low dps… im trying to see the usefulness of a warrior in pve over ele’s, necro’s, ect…
And no I don’t know everything I just want to give my opinion; if u guys think that 4 warriors in a pve group will kill everything as effectively as 4 ele’s would, be my guest…but I have never seen anyone take more then 2 warriors in a pve group.
In pvp I can see the use of a warrior as damage character. In a balanced team with 2 mesmers that shutdown the monks a warrior that goes off target can be very dangerous…
Even a team full of warriors with pets and stuff… will kill u really fast

RhanoctJocosa · Oct 03, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

Im not saying a warrior has low dps… im trying to see the usefulness of a warrior in pve over ele’s, necro’s, ect…
And no I don’t know everything I just want to give my opinion; if u guys think that 4 warriors in a pve group will kill everything as effectively as 4 ele’s would, be my guest…but I have never seen anyone take more then 2 warriors in a pve group.
In pvp I can see the use of a warrior as damage character. In a balanced team with 2 mesmers that shutdown the monks a warrior that goes off target can be very dangerous…
Even a team full of warriors with pets and stuff… will kill u really fast

4 Warriors will do more damage in both PvE and PvP.

yesitsrob · Oct 03, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

Im not saying a warrior has low dps… im trying to see the usefulness of a warrior in pve over ele’s, necro’s, ect…
And no I don’t know everything I just want to give my opinion; if u guys think that 4 warriors in a pve group will kill everything as effectively as 4 ele’s would, be my guest…but I have never seen anyone take more then 2 warriors in a pve group.
In pvp I can see the use of a warrior as damage character. In a balanced team with 2 mesmers that shutdown the monks a warrior that goes off target can be very dangerous…
Even a team full of warriors with pets and stuff… will kill u really fast

Warriors do have the highest single target DPS with the correct build (which would be something based on Dragonslash, IAS + FGJ), doubting that is moronic to be brutally honest. They also have the strongest raw damage, and if you really need AoE you can bring a splinter bitch along.

While I don't have many screens of multiple warriors clearing an area faster than eles could ever dream of doing. Do have one of 5 (i think) physicals doing Foundry of Failed Creations in 57 minutes on this forum somewhere. Conquering FoW in 1 hour 30, and Urgoz in 1 hour 24 (including afks on this one).

Eles for damage is the horrible incorrectness that 99% of PVE players believe in - when really, the size of the groups have to be absolutely huge for them to really be more appropriate damage - and generally with huge groups you have to hold aggro etc with that many squishies and that takes for bloody ever itself. Obviously necros shut things down too and they offer solid defense as well as ok damage so same doesn't apply to them.

That said the point of this thread is melee paragons, which I don't care to think about much... maybe something with focussed anger, likely not.

Squishy ftw · Oct 04, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

To get back on topic, I can think of some fun to play P/W builds using sword/axe/hammer. As you can play around with some other stances with the use of agressive refrain. Perhaps some e-heavy build with Warrior's endurance, or something with Auspiciaus parry.

I think it could be fun to play but if it'll be effective.. Also the damage will be rather low as your weapon attribute can be 12 at max.

nunix · Oct 05, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Well.. you could always go P/A, slip on your Thunderfist Knuckles, and go tearing around Frontis Irontoe's lair. ;D

One thing to keep in mind is you CAN make your character do just about anything you want.. but maybe it's more effective in some situations than others.

Casual · Oct 05, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

I hope you only play in doa or slaver's then because in almost all other PvE areas a Tank is nothing more than a serious waste of a very high dps char.

I have very limited knowledge about DoA apart from really specific solo farm runs so I won't comment on that.

For slaver's exile, until GW:EN gets HM, a tank is a wasted slot. Unless you consider a DSlasher with a couple of defensive skills a tank.

It is possible to make working or decent Para builds without a spear. You 'll just have to accept that it's not optimal. The fun factor can be up there, but it is a different matter.

The best non spear paragon build I've seen so far is the P/R barrage para designed to squeeze into a regular B/P group. Even then, it's still somewhat inferior to a R/P using roughly he same build and lack of Rt secondary for splinter weapon doesn't help either.

Arkantos · Oct 05, 2007, 10:41 AM // 10:41

A tank is a wasted slot in any area. Having a warrior pre-protted to run into aggro and hold it while dealing damage is much better then a warrior who has most of his skills dedicated to stand and hold aggro doing little to no damage.

On topic, a melee paragon isn't going to be an uber fail build. As long as it somewhat deals damage and can somewhat stay alive, run it, it's PvE.

blkhawk153 · Oct 05, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Warriors do have the highest single target DPS with the correct build (which would be something based on Dragonslash, IAS + FGJ), doubting that is moronic to be brutally honest. They also have the strongest raw damage, and if you really need AoE you can bring a splinter bitch along.

pretty sure sins do more dps

Darkpower Alchemist · Oct 06, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

A sin with a solid build, like a SP/Tiger's Fury sin can kill in a maximum of 6-8 seconds. A FGJ! Dragonslasher kills in 9-11 seconds. A FGJ!/Eviscerate/Exec/Agonizing warrior kills in roughly 8-10 seconds. The spike of the sin has more to do with getting all the moves to hit than DPS in the natural form. Where the warriors gave heavy damage over the full duration of the test, while the assassin gave heavy damage mostly during its arranged attack sequence.

These numbers came from my testing of the Master of Damage on Thursday. The way an ele attacks would depend on how DPS would be calculated, yet look at it in the sin's sense of attacking. Once you pop off the money hits what does it do? Wand stuff? What does a warrior do when it pops off its money attacks? Move to the next target and pop of another set of attacks of the same fashion, due to adrenaline gained in its last attack chain.

Do you see the difference in DPS output and Spike damage output? That is what you compare when you try to compare an ele/sin to a warrior/Dervish/melee based other. I believe a spear paragon falls slightly slower in DPS than a warrior due to spear flight time.

However, more on topic, their is no way a melee paragon would outdamage a warrior using the same weapon. It is a poor imitation of the genuine article. Specific build purposes aside, these are the facts. That's like saying a Thumper does more DPS than a hammer warrior when the fact is that the warrior, given the same mechanics, if not the same skills, would overpower a thumper easily. The reason the thumper is more accepted is because the thumper uses energy skills better, and that's it. Comparing a substitute to the real McCoy is a disservice to both.

Don't do it.

iridescentfyre · Oct 06, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

Even if a warrior would do the most single target damage (witch i doubt btw). I think its more useful to use AOE damage (u will probly tell me that a warrior can do AOE dmg, but that’s realy limited if u compaire that with what a ele can do). Also a warrior needs to build adrenalin to do his most powerful attacks. Most of the times while the warrior is charging up his skills with adrenalin, my ele’s have already killed 85% of the enemies. If u are going to tell me that warriors are good for the deep wound then u can replace them by the pve skill: “finish him” witch causes deep wound…
So imo, warriors are overrated…

Dragon Slash with base 15-22 damage +42 + Conjure hitting once every 0.88 seconds is a lot of DPS. And don't bother reiterating the adrenaline building part of your argument, with the correct build you can get 10 strikes of adrenaline in two or three sword swings.